Re: LV2000 demands

Folks,

        I, of all people, am probably not the best person to say this,
but....

        Let's please keep the flame wars in private email (or on RGVAC.)

        I'm not trying to play referee here, but, IMHO, your post went
over the line, Anders. Take it to email.

Joe

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Anders Knudsen wrote:

> At 05:23 PM 11/12/98 -0500, Omar whined!
> >Hello All,
> >I just wanted to clarify something.
>
> I for one have NO idea what in the heck you are trying to clarify?!?!
>
> >I went to Unicorn's catalog and looked up the prices for components for 200
> >boards. These are by no means the cheapest prices available:
>
> Good for you. You are capable of reading...
>
> >Part Qty Each Tot
> >LM337T 200 0.68 136
> >LM317T 200 0.42 84
> >1K Pot 400 0.59 236
> >1N4001 1200 0.03 36
> >4.3K RES 400 0.015 6
> >47K RES 400 0.015 6
> >240 RES 400 0.015 6
> >LED 400 0.07 28
> >1 uF tant 400 0.13 13
> >10 uF elect 800 0.05 40
> >
> >Total 591
> >
> >so 591/200 = 2.955 per board in parts... Unicorn would ship this order for
> >free so that's accurate
>
> However, math must not have been your strongest subject?
> Let's see, from your attempt at a parts spreadsheet above, you must think that
> 400 *0.13 = 13.
> Not only can you not multiply, you didn't even get the BOM correct. You missed
> out on the .47uF cap. Also, you failed to calculate that some of the parts are
> in multiples -- i.e., 6 diodes per board, 2 pots per board, etc., etc.
> ...hasty...
>
> >As far as the board blanks go Mitchell's price is for a much larger 2 SIDED
> >board run. The LV2000's are small (about 1.5x2") boards so that price goes
> >out the window. Many local board houses will not do runs for less than $500
> >(unless they sneak yours into someone else's) but you could get them done
> >with a 4 week turn for quite a bit less than $1000 (very bogus price).
>
> That may be so. You go ahead and get a price quote for 500 PCBs at the size of
> the LV2000. Since I last ran the LV2000s, the NRE tooling fee has gone up 38 %!
> I'm thinking about increasing the LV2000 kit/assembled board prices up by 10%.
>
> >I have done some by hand and my total usually runs no more than $5 per
> >assembled board including chemicals, board blanks, and parts. If you want
> >to justify your price, please don't try to say they are expensive to
> >produce. The only justification I can think of is that they do take some
> >time to assemble. The sure as hell did not take much time to design. The
> >schematics are straight out of the Motorola application notes and I had the
> >board layout guy here do mine up in about 10 minutes.
>
> That's nice for you. So you can go ahead and download the schematic, or as you
> so succinctly put it, use the schematic straight out of the Motorola app note.
> Just watch yourself that you spec the parts correctly, or you could get burned
> there. Oh, and that acid can burn too.
> Maybe you could give me the number for your board layout guy. Since he's way
> faster than I. Perhaps he could lay out the next project I do in 1/10th the
> time it took me. :-O That would make it sooo much cheaper.
> As far as time, well it did take some time. This is what we call ingenuity. I
> saw a problem with the WG deflection pcb. I saw where the main problem was.
> That means I had to understand how the WG deflection PCB was working. I saw
> that other solutions out there were not quite perfect. I came up with a
> solution, and if I may be forward, it's a damn good solution, that is simple,
> easy to install, and most importantly that works.
> So what if the design is simple? That's the beauty of it. A simple design for a
> large problem. Rather I say that it's an elegant design to the problem.
>
> >So what's the point? Justify the price by saying we do what others don't
> >feel like doing!
>
> The point is I felt that my solution to the WG deflection power problem should
> be shared with the vector collecting community. So we could all see our WG
> monitors fail less often, or not at all.
> Now I said "share" with you all, not "give away". Much as I enjoy you all, I'm
> not about to hand you my wallet (understand)?
> So I did share. I posted my solution for all to see on the Web. You could
> download the schematic. You could download the parts list. You could even
> download the documentation to see how the little LV2000 fit on to the WG PCB.
> So people like you, Omar, could sit in your kitchen with a bubbling acid bath,
> some markers or trace transfers, and make your own damn LV2000.
> Then I did a production run of the PCBs, ordered parts and offered them so that
> those who wanted could easily get this solution installed in their own WG
> monitors.
>
> >Sorry to rant. I just had to say my part.
>
> What part? All you got across to anyone who reads your message is that you are
> a whiner. You are most likely jealous that someone might make a profit from
> such a simple solution to a large problem. The "profit" I make from all this
> might buy me lunch once in a while, but I in no way could make a living doing
> this bullshit.
> It takes time to get all the parts together, order PCBs, type up instructions
> with pictures, get orders mailed out, etc., etc. That's a whole hell-a lot more
> than 10 minutes, Omar.
> If you understood this you would know that the price of an LV2000 adds up to
> more than just "parts" and a "bare PCB".
>
> >Omar
> >
> >p.s. I don't sell my boards, I just trade them every so often. There's
> >nothing wrong with Jeff and Anders doing that at all though.
>
> Omar, your message is misguided, inaccurate, and has no point to it whatsoever.
> Next time you should think a little longer before "speak".
>
> Oh, and anyone else who feels the same way as Omar (I hope the number is few),
> you just go ahead and head over to his house and play PCB fab/assembly in his
> kitchen. Just be sure to bring your own damn parts.
> I do this for the enjoyment, and hopefully so others also can gain some benefit
> from this.
> The last thing I need is for someone to jerk my chain and basically say that
> I'm ripping people off.
>
> -Anders (gonna open up a can of whup ass on you right now!)
>
>

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Joseph J. Welser jwelser@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Design Engineer -- Crystal Semiconductor Corporation
Ph.D. Student in E.E. -- University of Texas at Austin
Work: jwelser_at_crystal.cirrus.com http://www.crystal.com
P.O. Box 17847; Austin, TX 78760
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Received on Thu Nov 12 23:37:29 1998