Re: New XY Monitors

From: Robert Mudryk <rob_at_lasers.org>
Date: Mon Nov 20 2000 - 17:57:19 EST

scanners aren't that accurate, yes we could break them up into Regions, but to
get where they intersect to sync consistantly
scanners are analog devices... take a pencil, draw a zig zag line down a
page... then draw a second one right next to it and try to get all the points at
the ends of the lines to meet... if there is a game that is R G & Blue only,
we could seperate that way as long as any object isn't multi-colored

the MAME driver is a interperter, you don't have code for what is what... that's
all handled in the ROM code it self....

and yes in MAME there is one catch all vector to raster file that you can pull
the vectors and pallet with ease.. that is exactly what we did with LaserMAME,
we had to massage the data a bit to reduce some vectors and blanked lines

now for some games like Battle Zone, there are defiently segmented regions...
like the top scoring area... if that was broken off to a different
region/scanner I could probably eliminate flicker completely with laser.. but
would have to add another $8k US of equipment to display it.

If anyone is ever in Cleveland, OH... or goes to CA Extreme next fall... or we
may even be doing the Detroit Auto Show.. I'd be glad to show you how it
actually works... and what will actually work

Rob

"Rosenzweig, Joel B" wrote:

> It seems to me that with some effort to change the appropriate MAME driver,
> you could change the vector output to provide not just one stream of vector
> data, but N streams of vector data. If we striped the display area into N
> pieces then you can split the work load over N scanning units in order to
> overcome the scanning limitations of the current device.

>
> Then for a given scanning technology you divide the required number of
> points per second for the game by the rate each scanning element provides,
> and that tells you how many scanning units you need to display all the
> points. You then partition the video output from the driver to equal the
> number of scanning devices.
>
> So, even with the laser scanning system talked about here, if you can't get
> the performance you need with one scanning system, use two. Split the load
> between the top and bottom half, or left and right half. You'll get your
> instant speed improvement without waiting for that next galvo to come out.
>
> I haven't looked at the MAME source code so it's hard to guess about this,
> but I'll try anyway. At some point the MAME driver should have a vector
> draw list that it is about to rasterize. You could examine the end points
> for each vector segment at this point in time and do the partitioning then.
> If a segment is fully in one quadrant or another that vector is trivially
> assigned to the appropriate bucket. If a segment has an end point in more
> than one partition, you'll have to break that segment into pieces and put
> each piece into the appropriate bucket. Then output your vector list data
> as you do today ...
>
> Joel-
>
> Rodger Boots wrote:
>
> > Call me naive, but I was going to get the light source VERY near the
> galvos (no more than 1/4") and the galvos VERY close to each other (1/2"
> maximum). This would allow the
> > galvo surfaces to be very VERY small (can you say minimum inertia?)
>
> for the Laser we use 3mm x 3mm (X-axis Mirror) 3mm x 5mm (Y-Axis) and the
> mirrors are less than 2mm away from each other... and I can get what's known
> as 50,000pps (about 12k
> vectors per second, or 400 vectors per frame at 30fps) if I use 5x5 and
> 5x8 stock (Usually used for remote fiber Launched Heads) I can do at max
> 24,000pps minimal inertia
> but at these speeds resonance frequencies of the mirror stock, glass warping
> and/or shattering become a factor
>
> > and wouldn't be conventional mirrors at all. By keeping inertia low and
> movements very small I was
> > hoping to use either piezo transducers or those mini-headphone speakers.
> Problem there is finding some with high enough reflectivity.
>
> you need something that has a position sensor.. to be able to halt the
> mirrors and not over shoot it's target
> again mini headphone speakers or piezo you could probably do 20-30 vectors
> per second...
>
> >
> > Scanning power would be quite low, simple amplifier with no heatsinks.
> Possibly (wishful thinking would be more like it) drivable from the game
> board without any amplifier
> > at all.
>
> look at the amplifiers like on a Wells Garner... you could probably use the
> output of that to the magnets easier than the signal coming from the
> board....
>
> >
> >
> > The lamp drivers would be scarier, but I had some interesting ideas for
> doing that.
> >
> > At the present time, a low-cost LASER diode could probably handle the red.
> But the <$20 red LASER sounds good, the green beam would be over $300 and
> blue just isn't
> > available.
>
> some day soon there will be all colors cheap.. every laser company in the
> world is working on the blue... it's been made, but they are having a hard
> time making it work
> consistantly
>
> >
> > And there still is the problem with the screen having no persistence.
>
> monitors have no persistance. LCD's laptop screens have some, ever try to
> play a video game on a LCD... all you see are ghosts or smearing.
> Asteroids and such run at 30-60
> frames per second, Asteroids, 60 Frame Per Seconds, there is defiently no
> persistance there, or it would look like hell.
>
> >
> >
> > Now making a vector monitor in the form of a GOGGLE is a whole different
> story. Here LEDs would work. Entire goggle could be done for possibly
> under $100.
>
> Backlit LCD would work here.. a little 5x5mm color LCD... but you still
> need a driver to convert from vector to a pixel based display
>
> >
> >
> > Robert Mudryk wrote:
> >
> > > the galvo's in a old Laser player is known as a GAL-2 seen sold on
> ebay every once and awhile... best case... you could scan a single letter..
> if it was large
> > > enough... a GAL-2 is rated at 300 points per second, or about 4-5
> vectors per frame... nice for making pretty patterns in laser though :)
> > >
> > > peter jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Rodger Boots <rlboots@cedar-rapids.net>
> > > > To: vectorlist@synthcom.com
> > > > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:54:42 -0600
> > > > Subject: Re: VECTOR: New XY Monitors
> > > >
> > > > > I was thinking the "laser bouncing off of galvos" method, but the
> problems there
> > > > > are getting the costs down.
> > > > >
> > > > > So then I says to myself "self, how about using very small earphone
> elements or
> > > > > piezo transducers VERY close to the laser so they don't have to move
> much to get a
> > > > > LOT of deflection?", but the lasers are still too expensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > So then, though it's a messy approach, I wondered about using arc
> lamps for the
> > > > > three colors. Doing high speed modulation should be a nightmare,
> but let's just
> > > > > see where this thought goes. How much are those arc headlights they
> use on some
> > > > > cars?
> > > > >
> > > > > The whole downside to all of this, though, is the lack of
> persistence that CRT
> > > > > phosphors give you. On the "bright" side, though, explosions could
> light up the
> > > > > room!!!
> > > > >
> > > > I was going to try and play asteroids once using a laser-diode from a
> pen running past 2 galvo's from an old phillips laser-player but never got
> around to building it.
> > > >
> > > > it was only to project a small 10-30 inch image but it was just an
> idea to test the galvo-speed.
> > > >
> > > > L8r.
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> > --
> > Windows:
> >
> > 32 bit graphical interface for a
> > 16 bit patch for an
> > 8 bit operating system written for a
> > 4 bit processor by a
> > 2 bit company that can't stand
> > 1 bit of competition.
> >
> >
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Received on Mon Nov 20 18:24:44 2000

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