Re: K6100 T901

What is a Motorola XM chassis off of? Got a link to photos of it? I'd
hate to dump some ifd I have one kicking around.

Pat

On 9/20/2011 6:20 PM, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
>
> It looks like from the schematic that the same transfomer is on the
> Mototola XM chassis. The circuit is identical to the WG V100X and the
> 6100. The impedances (or resistances more likely) even match up to
> what I measured on the xfomer. I have a scrap XM701 I think around
> here somewhere..Im gonna try it before I butcher a (pricey) WG v1001
> chassis..
>
> > akswanson sent me pieces of the wire from the primary and secondary
> coils
> > of
> > T901. Using some very fine sandpaper, I sanded off the insulation, and
> > measured
> > the wire diameter with some nice Mitutoyo calipers.
> >
> > The primary wire measured .0065 inch, which according to wikipedia:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
> >
> > is AWG 34.
> >
> > The secondary wire measured at .025 inch, which is AWG 22.
> >
> > So, putting it all together, the specs for T901 are:
> >
> > Primary coil: 625 turns of AWG 34 wire
> > Secondary coil: 23 turns of AWG 22 wire
> >
> > Anyone want to try and wind their own? akswanson has an empty bobbin and
> > core. :-)
> >
> > ___
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > On 09/06/11 18:38, Ken Sumrall wrote:
> >> Excellent! Thanks! Do you happen to have a micrometer or calipers to
> >> measure
> >> the diameter of the wire? If you do, please use sandpaper to take off
> >> the
> >> lacquer coating to get an accurate measurement. Or you can stuff both
> >> wires
> >> in an envelope and send it to me. :-) I have a micrometer and calipers.
> >>
> >> Let me know if I should send you my address.
> >>
> >> So, looking at the schemtics, T901 is switched on and off between
> the B+
> >> and
> >> B- rails, for about 53 volts minus the drop across Q905, so let's call
> >> it 52
> >> volts. Then the secondary is listed as being -27.6, but it's connected
> >> on
> >> one side to B-, or -26.4 volts. So, that's 1.2 volts across the
> >> secondary
> >> and R926. I'm not sure why R926 is a 2W resistor, because the only
> >> current
> >> would be to drive the base of a transistor, which should be in the mA
> >> range.
> >> Then again, the size of the secondary wire in the picture is thicker
> >> than
> >> that required to drive tens of mA.
> >>
> >> Let's say it's 100 mA, then the drop across R926 is 0.22 volts.
> >> So the primary is 26.4 volts versus the secondary at 1.2-.22 is 0.98,
> >> or a ratio of 26.9:1. And 625 turns / 23 turns is a ratio of 27.2:1.
> >> So your count of the turns ratio seems rather accurate.
> >>
> >> In other words, I have faith in your counted turns. :-)
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Ken
> >>
> >>
> >> On 09/04/11 07:27, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>> Ok.. I pulled my transformer
> >>>
> >>> Primary : 625 turns (give or take some..lol Id say its within a
> percent
> >>> or two)
> >>> very fine wire
> >>>
> >>> Secondary: 23 turns
> >>>
> >>> pics for your enjoyment:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcandrewsnd/sets/72157627466514605/
> >>>
> >>> > I heartily agree that whoever takes the time to investigate the
> >>> properties
> >>> > of the T901 transformer should post the info the the list, and
> >>> hopefully
> >>> > the list owner will save that info on the vectorlist website
> >>> archives.
> >>> >
> >>> > If I finish rebuilding my living room/stero/TV setup this weekend,
> >>> I'll
> >>> > pull the working T901 from my spare WG high voltage board and try to
> >>> > measure the turns ratio and the resistance of both coils. I'll post
> >>> the
> >>> > info here when I get it.
> >>> >
> >>> > ___
> >>> > Ken
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On 09/02/11 18:11, litterbox99@mchsi.com wrote:
> >>> >> I can't imagine that someone hasn't done this
> >>> >> before and documented it...
> >>> >>
> >>> >> It would be very usefull information.
> >>> >> Kudos ! To someone who gives it a try.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Todd
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> >>
> >>>
> From: "Ken Sumrall"<k_lists@scrapheap.net>
> >>> >> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>> >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:53:26 PM GMT -06:00 Central
> >>> America
> >>> >> Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>> >>
> >>> >> If the old transformer is not too burned up, you can count turns as
> >>> you
> >>> >> unwind
> >>> >> it. Sometimes only the insulation melts, leading to shorted bad
> >>> >> transformers,
> >>> >> but easy to count the turns as you unwind it.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> However, other times the wire itself melts/breaks, and then its
> >>> harder
> >>> >> to
> >>> >> count as you unwind. If only one of the two coils is broken,
> you can
> >>> >> use
> >>> >> the turn count from one coil, and the measured ratio from a working
> >>> >> transformer
> >>> >> to figure out the turns count for the broken coil.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Good luck if you choose to do it, and if you don't want to, you can
> >>> send
> >>> >> me
> >>> >> your burned out transformer and I'll give it a try.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ___
> >>> >> Ken
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On 09/02/11 17:40, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>> >>> I have been contemplating rewinding it. I'll pull it apart and see
> >>> how
> >>> >>> bad. I
> >>> >>> Love the 250ma fuse mod. Im thinking of some kind of fuse mod for
> >>> this
> >>> >>> G08 im
> >>> >>> working on that keeps blowing output transistors (yes they are the
> >>> >>> correct
> >>> >>> devices, not the 3716s). Ugh.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> > I've thought about this some more, and it seems to me this would
> >>> >>> not
> >>> >>> > be that hard to rewind yourself. You can easily measure the
> turns
> >>> >>> ratio
> >>> >>> > of a working transformer with a signal generator set to the
> right
> >>> >>> > frequency
> >>> >>> > and a volt meter to read the output. Or just probe the input and
> >>> >>> output
> >>> >>> > terminals of the transformer in a working circuit, though the
> >>> load
> >>> >>> on the
> >>> >>> > transformer could affect the readings.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > Then you could estimate the number of turns on the primary by
> >>> >>> measuring
> >>> >>> > the
> >>> >>> > resistance of the wire and it's gauge, and using a chart that
> >>> >>> lists the
> >>> >>> > resistance/foot of the standard wire gauges.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > Winding transformers is not fun, but not hard to do. Just time
> >>> >>> consuming.
> >>> >>> > If there is enough demand, it might be worth while to get a
> batch
> >>> >>> of them
> >>> >>> > custom made.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > I know someone who sold a Scope Clock kit, and he had the
> special
> >>> >>> > transformer
> >>> >>> > he needed for his design custom made. I could ask him where he
> >>> got
> >>> >>> them
> >>> >>> > made
> >>> >>> > if there is enough interest to investigate this further.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > Is there a pent up demand for this transformer?
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> > ___
> >>> >>> > Ken
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >> --- k_lists@scrapheap.net wrote:
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>>
> >>>
> From: Ken Sumrall<k_lists@scrapheap.net>
> >>> >>> >> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>> >>> >> Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:33:27 -0700
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> I searched my local archives of the vector list, and found this
> >>> >>> post
> >>> >>> >> from July 8, 2007 from Hans O:
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> > AH, now I remember. They're found in old B& W raster chassis.
> >>> >>> >> > Track down an old 19V1001 or 1003 chassis. Should be a bunch
> >>> >>> of
> >>> >>> >> > dead ones out there.
> >>> >>> >> >
> >>> >>> >> > Hans O
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> Good luck!
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> ___
> >>> >>> >> Ken
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >> akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> lol..no worries.. I guessed maybe I had the wrong part ##. I
> >>> >>> will
> >>> >>> >>> DEFINATLEY check that out!!
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> > Oops, I just realized you're not talking about the flyback,
> >>> >>> but
> >>> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> >>> > smaller transformer on the HV board.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Sorry, I don't know where to get a new one of those.
> However,
> >>> >>> I do
> >>> >>> >>> > recommend you read the installation manual for the
> >>> >>> replacement
> >>> >>> >>> flyback
> >>> >>> >>> > which you can find at the first link below. It includes
> >>> >>> >>> instructions on
> >>> >>> >>> > how to add 3 fuses to the HV circuit to protect components
> >>> >>> >>> (including
> >>> >>> >>> > T901) in the event of another failure like the one you have.
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > ___
> >>> >>> >>> > Ken
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> > Ken Sumrall wrote:
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >> You can get one here:
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> http://www.cinelabs.com/wg6100/
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> which has link to here:
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> http://arcadeshop.com/wgxy-fb/wgxy-fb.htm
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> $79, and comes with extra protection components and a new
> >>> >>> focus
> >>> >>> >>> >> assembly.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> Note, I've never ordered or used one of these flybacks, I
> >>> >>> just
> >>> >>> >> remmeber
> >>> >>> >>> >> seeing it recently while searching for other parts to bring
> >>> >>> a
> >>> >>> >>> 6100
> >>> >>> >> back
> >>> >>> >>> >> to life.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> ___
> >>> >>> >>> >> Ken
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >> akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> I had suspected the triple nickel (555), and indeed it was
> >>> >>> >>> fried.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> It also took out Q905, AND T901.. I verified this by
> trying
> >>> >>> T901
> >>> >>> >>> in a
> >>> >>> >>> >>> known good HV unit. I got smoke, and another blown Q905..
> >>> >>> So if
> >>> >>> >>> >>> anybody knows where I can get a replacement T901 thatd be
> >>> >>> swell!
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > I'm not saying that you don't have a bad T901, but can
> >>> >>> you
> >>> >>> >>> verify
> >>> >>> >>> >>> that
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > IC901 (555 timer as a simple oscillator) is running. A
> >>> >>> scope
> >>> >>> >>> would
> >>> >>> >>> >>> show a
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > nice square wave coming out at pin 3. If it is stuck in
> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> >>> high
> >>> >>> >>> >>> state,
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > it would keep Q904 and Q905 turned on constantly and
> >>> >>> that
> >>> >>> >>> would
> >>> >>> >>> >>> certainly
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > cause your problem. Of course in this state, there would
> >>> >>> be
> >>> >>> >>> no HV
> >>> >>> >>> >>> output
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > at all. Check ZD900 for 13V across it. ZD900 is the
> >>> >>> voltage
> >>> >>> >>> >>> regulator
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > for the 555 chip. If the zener is partially shorted and
> >>> >>> there
> >>> >>> >>> isn't
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > enough voltage across the 555 chip, then the 555 chip
> >>> >>> output
> >>> >>> >>> might
> >>> >>> >>> >>> be
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > stuck even if there's nothing wrong with it. If the
> >>> >>> zener is
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > open-circuit, the 555 chip will likely have blown.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > You should remove R917 and leave it out until you can
> >>> >>> verify
> >>> >>> >>> that
> >>> >>> >>> >>> IC901 is
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > running okay and that the transistors Q904/905 are both
> >>> >>> >>> switching.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> To
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > functionally test Q905, you can add a temporary 10k (to
> >>> >>> 47k)
> >>> >>> >>> >>> resistor
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > (1/2W to 1W) from +Vsupply (+28V) to Q905 collector. If
> >>> >>> scope
> >>> >>> >>> shows
> >>> >>> >>> >>> a
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > good square wave, remove the temporary resistor and
> >>> >>> return
> >>> >>> >>> your
> >>> >>> >>> >>> focus to
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > T901.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > If you do not have a scope but you have a voltmeter,
> >>> >>> connect
> >>> >>> >>> your
> >>> >>> >>> >>> meter
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > (-) to ZD900 anode or IC901 pin 1. Use the meter(+) to
> >>> >>> >>> measure
> >>> >>> >>> >>> voltage at
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > ZD900 cathode and IC901 pin 8. Both should be about 13V.
> >>> >>> >>> Measure
> >>> >>> >>> >>> IC901
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > pin 3. If it is running, it should be around 6.5V
> >>> >>> plus/minus
> >>> >>> >>> around
> >>> >>> >>> >>> 0.5V
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > roughly. The point here is that pin 3 should be
> >>> >>> outputting a
> >>> >>> >>> square
> >>> >>> >>> >>> wave
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > having roughly a 50% duty cycle so the voltmeter should
> >>> >>> show
> >>> >>> >>> >>> approximately
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > one half the chip supply voltage.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > William Boucher
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > http://www.biltronix.com
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>>
> From: akswanson@ntelos.net
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:20 AM
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > One of my 6100s had a fire on the HV board, took out
> >>> >>> R917 and
> >>> >>> >>> Q905.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> I
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > replaced those, and got smoke again.. Comparing the
> >>> >>> >>> resistance of
> >>> >>> >>> >>> the
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > primary of T901 to a known working T901 I get 9.5 Ohms
> >>> >>> on the
> >>> >>> >>> >>> suspected
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > bad one and 17 ohms on the known good one. I get the
> >>> >>> feeling
> >>> >>> >>> I
> >>> >>> >>> >>> melted
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > the varnish on the wiring and shorted them together..
> >>> >>> Does
> >>> >>> >>> anyone
> >>> >>> >>> >>> know
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > where (or have) and extra T901? Also, Is there a
> >>> >>> secondary
> >>> >>> >>> cause,
> >>> >>> >>> >>> such
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > as a flyback failure that would cause this kind of
> >>> >>> failure? I
> >>> >>> >>> dont
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > want to blow the dang thing again..
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Andrew
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> >>> >>> >> ** Unsubscribe, subscribe, or view the archives at
> >>> >>> >>> >> http://www.vectorlist.org
> >>> >>> >>> >> ** Please direct other questions, comments, or problems to
> >>> >>> >>> >> chris@westnet.com
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>>
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> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>>
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> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>>
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> >>> >
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> >>
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Received on Wed Sep 21 13:08:50 2011