RE: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches

Be carefull with pinouts on those old 7400 series chips. Sometimes the
pinout will be different between 74, 74L, 74LS, 74S, etc. It's bad enough
that 7490 & 7493 have non-standard power and ground connections.
On Nov 8, 2011 4:50 PM, "Zitt Zitterkopf" <zittware@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> Did you get a chance to reverify the 7593's?
> Re-copying my findings:
>
> I found the problem I discovered – It wasn’t with the 7490; but all the
> 7493s. For some reason your pinouts via PADS appear wrong.
>
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn7493a.pdf
>
> Fortunately; the QA is right ... but QB/C/D are incorrect . On the 93;
> they are not wired as in the 92... 90 and 93 do share the same pinouts tho.
>
> So; are the pin NAMEs right; or are the pin numbers? looks like the same
> “mistake” is present on U3/U4/U5.
>
>
> Any chance you'd be willing to take some current measurements for the
> rails while you have your box open?
>
> Regardless; I appreciate the effort you made here. You are a Great asset
> to the community.
> John
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dfish_1@comcast.net
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:07:51 -0500
>
> >> I'm waiting on corrected wiring diagrams from Dave.
>
>
>
> OK, got it figured out. The schematic for the Main boards is correct. The
> schematic for the cable is correct. The schematic for the switch board will
> require a connector numbering ‘flip’. The boards were originally designed
> with the header connectors for the switches numbered opposite each other.
> The designers chose to key both connectors so that you could plug either
> connector into either header but you have to rotate one or the other to
> make it fit (clear?). To top it off there was no attempt at labeling the
> connectors on the PCB or on the cable itself.
>
>
>
> So, when it’s correctly connected the connector that I labeled J4 on the
> cable schematic plugs into P3 on the Main PCB. The other end of the cable
> is plugged into the connector labeled J5 on the Switch PCB, In order to do
> this the connector is rotated forcing the numbering system that I have for
> P5 to require re-numbering, i.e. J5-1 becomes J5-8, J5-2 becomes J5-7, etc.
>
>
>
> It ends up with the emitter of Q1 connected to the ‘top’ end of the slider
> potentiometer and the Ground signals connected together.
>
>
>
> Sorry about the screw-up. I should have had someone check the schematic
> before I released it.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [mailto:
> owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org] *On Behalf Of *Zitt Zitterkopf
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:31 AM
> *To:* vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> *Subject:* RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> Zonn,
> Xcellent Feedback! Many thanks!
>
> Yes. Q1E is tied to the Front Panel board which is part of the switch
> matrix. I'm waiting on corrected wiring diagrams from Dave.
> My gut tells me the Emitter is tied to the 200ohm pot which in turn drives
> RGB out.
>
> The problem with this RGB out circuit as is... is that the 200ohm slider
> pot doesn't appear to exist anymore. The best I could find from Digikey is
> either a 250 expensive rotary pot. Or a 5K slider pot. I'm wondering if I
> could use one of the spare opamps to emulate the 200ohm pot from a 5k
> slider pot. But the KISS methodology tells me it's smater to just to the
> 250 rotary pot. Thoughts?
>
> The opamps are TL084B . Thanks for the tip regarding opamp strapping...
> will make these changes tonight after work.
> John
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 02:28:20 -0800
> From: mlists@zonn.com
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
> It looks like Q1 is missing a resistor on its emitter to ground, and a
> wire going somewhere (is this the Z-axis driver?). Without these the whole
> U12B circuit doesn't do anything, and you can remove it.
>
> Depending upon the op-amps you're using, you might want to put some
> 10~50ohm resistors on the outputs of the the op-amps that drive the
> monitors. (U14 B&C and U16 B&C). They will keep the op-amp from
> oscillating when driving long wires, and will give some protection if (or
> should I say when) the outputs are shorted to ground, a voltage, or each
> other. Some op amps have these resistors built in. Your schematic doesn't
> mention the op-amp's value so I couldn't look them up.
>
> Use 74HCxxx series. they're fast, low power, and will be more noise
> resistant than the 74xx or 74LSxx devices.
>
> The proper way to terminate unused op-amp sections (U14D & U16D) is to tie
> the '-' input to the output (like U16D), and tie the '+' to ground. This
> forces the output to ground (instead of +12V or -12V). This will usually
> result in lower power consumption, and prevents disasters if the output
> accidentally gets shorted by the probe of a voltmeter or oscilloscope.
>
> -Zonn
>
> On 11/7/2011 10:52 PM, Zitt Zitterkopf wrote:
>
> All,
>
> If you’re interested in the re-capture of Dave’s Wico Schematics; I’ve
> temporarily posted them there:
>
> http://Pinball-Mods.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/XYPattern.pdf<http://pinball-mods.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/XYPattern.pdf>
>
>
>
> Still to-do:
>
> 1) Determine 7493 wiring vs Dave’s schematics.
>
> 2) Front Panel board integration – pending Switch Decode.
>
> 3) Simulate Opamps for circuit understanding.
>
> 4) Power Supply: pending power measurements – if someone will volunteer to
> get them.
>
> 5) PCB Layout.
>
> 6) BOM Generation.
>
>
>
> Changes w/regards to Dave’s schematics:
>
> A) Decoupling caps for each IC.
>
> B) 0ohm “202 solder shorts” for unconnected pins of TTL gates at U2, U3,
> U5, and the “top” of R30 (R3). So they can be reversed if necessary.
>
> C) Passives are likely to have different RefDez.
>
> D) IC Power Supply pins are shown at decoupling grid.
>
> E) “Bussed” Address pins.
>
> F) Unused Gates are “strapped” to a known state.
>
> G) 74xx TTL logic is becoming obsolete. Plan to use 74HC logic or 74LS
> logic – haven’t decided.
>
>
>
> My plan is to have the board manufactured by batchpcb.com as a dual sided
> board.
>
> Surface Mount ( yes; I can hear the screams of horror ) as I want to
> minimize PCB size – thereby cost.
>
>
>
> I’d appreciate any “peer reviews” of the schematic page.
>
>
>
> As far as open source for the schematics / pcb; I’m concerned w/regards to
> the original owners of the design. IE can’t really open source a product I
> don’t own, can I?
> Besides, Dave hasn’t really given his blessing to the project given the
> source of the schematics are via his work.
>
> John
>
>
>
> *From:* Zitt Zitterkopf <zittware@hotmail.com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 07, 2011 9:48 PM
>
> *To:* vectorlist@vectorlist.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
> David,
>
> Many thanks. I’ll put a shorting block to the R3 topside so it can be
> disconnected – I’m pretty sure it should be there; even tho TTL generally
> defaults to “high” if unconnected.
>
>
>
> I found the problem I discovered – It wasn’t with the 7490; but all the
> 7493s. For some reason your pinouts via PADS appear wrong.
>
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn7493a.pdf
>
> Fortunately; the QA is right ... but QB/C/D are incorrect . On the 93;
> they are not wired as in the 92... 90 and 93 do share the same pinouts tho.
>
> So; are the pin NAMEs right; or are the pin numbers? looks like the same
> “mistake” is present on U3/U4/U5.
>
>
>
> I’ll go ahead and wire up the opamps – thanks for the info.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* David Fish <dfish_1@comcast.net>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 07, 2011 8:43 PM
>
> *To:* vectorlist@vectorlist.org
>
> *Subject:* RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
> John,
>
>
>
> >>@A-7 on page 1; R3 topside is listed as a NC.
>
>
>
> Weird but that’s the way it is on my board. Maybe they forgot to add a +5V
> jumper.
>
>
>
> >> I think you had Q2 and Q3 pins swapped
>
>
>
> The pinout for the 7490 is correct QA=12, QB=9, QC=8 and QD=11. The PADS
> library part used Q0-Q3 instead of QA-QD.
>
>
>
> >> The Power supplies weren't pictured for U14, 15, and 16.
>
>
>
> Good catch. They’re powered by +/-12V, but that’s not shown on the
> schematic.
>
>
>
> I think the connector issue stems from the fact that they have the two
> identical connectors numbered opposite of each other. The main board 8-pin
> connector is 1 thru 8 L->R while the switch board is 1->8 R-L. I wonder if
> I plugged my cable back in wrong? There’s no labels and the keys are
> symmetric (stupid). Will look into this more tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [
> mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org <owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Zitt Zitterkopf
> *Sent:* Monday, November 07, 2011 5:37 PM
> *To:* vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> *Subject:* RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> Dave - You rock! Thanks to everyone else too.
> I've schematic captured based upon your schematics; Dave - many thanks.
> The only peices I haven't captured are the PSU, the 2nd page, and diode
> switch matrix.
>
> Some questions came up while "re-engineering" the schematics.
>
> @A-7 on page 1; R3 topside is listed as a NC... I'm guessing this is
> incorrect as why would anyone put a resistor without a second conection?
> My Guess is that R3 ties to +5V like the other two (R4, R5).
>
> IIRC; something was "off" when I wired U2 @ D-6. I think you had Q2 and
> Q3 pins swapped. I'll look for sure when I get home.
>
> The Power supplies weren't pictured for U14, 15, and 16. These Opamps are
> tied to the +12 and -12 rails?
> I plan on simulating the opamps to try to gain insight as to what they are
> doing.
>
> Seems odd that the DAC08s are driven from a non-linear voltage rail. IE V+
> is 5V and V- is -12V. I'd have thunk they rails would be symetrical. IE
> +/-12V. Maybe the opamps linearize it?
>
> Can anyone get me some rail power measurements?
> I'm going to try and do away with the transformer and linear regulators in
> favor of a more complex (yeah; I know K.I.S.S) PWM psu which puts our all
> three rails.
> If I knew what the average current was for each rail; a small PWM might be
> nice and cheap.
>
> I *so* wish this was an opensource hardware project ... I'd so like to
> release my PCB and schematics (assuming it works) to the public.
> <sigh>
>
> John
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: dfish_1@comcast.net
> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> Subject: RE: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 17:05:13 -0500
>
> John,
>
>
>
> I already have mine apart on my desk. I’m looking at it now. I’m taking
> lots of pictures.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [
> mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org <owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *John Robertson
> *Sent:* Monday, November 07, 2011 4:49 PM
> *To:* vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> *Subject:* Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> David Fish wrote:
>
> John,
>
>
>
> Before you mirror the schematics let me take a look at them in depth. It
> was a looooooong time ago when I drew them.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I no longer have the schematic source file or access to
> PADS schematic cap even if I did. I looked at them online and yes,
> something looks screwy about the switch board to main board connector
> pinout. I’m thinking there’s a reversed connector involved here. I’ll let
> everyone know what I find.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
> I have a working WICO XY Pattern Generator if you need any pictures
> (either of you) just let me know and I'll crack it open...
>
> John :-#)#
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org [
> mailto:owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org <owner-vectorlist@vectorlist.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Mark Shostak
> *Sent:* Monday, November 07, 2011 2:44 PM
> *To:* vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> *Subject:* Re: VECTOR: Wico XY Pattern Generator - Decoding Switches
>
>
>
> You can mirror the schematics from ionpool
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:43 PM, John Robertson <pinball@telus.net> wrote:
>
> Zitt Zitterkopf wrote:
>
> I’m looking at the schematics for the Wico XY Pattern Generator; and can
> seem to figure out how the Front panel PCB connects to the Main Board.
>
>
>
> At A-8 on the main schematics page; it shows P3-1-8 as connected to the D
> Flip Flops and the A10 of the U7/U8 pattern generating roms.
>
>
>
> However, P3 doesn’t seem to connect correctly to the “cable” connected to
> the front panel board at B-8 on the second page.
>
>
>
> It appears that the diode matrix appears to drive set/clear to Dflip flop
> U6-A which controls A9 on the ROMs.
>
> But I’m unsure of the encoding given I can figure out how “P3” connects to
> the Front panel board.
>
>
>
> Anyone have an idea?
>
> John
>
> Do you have a copy of the schematics so I can put them up on TTL? The
> manual (such as it is) is there along with images of the Eproms.
>
> ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/TestEquipment/WICO
>
> Thanks,
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
>
> John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
>
> Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames)
>
> www.flippers.com
>
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Received on Tue Nov 8 17:57:51 2011