Vectorlist Archives: Re: K6100 T901

From: <akswanson_at_ntelos.net>
Date: Thu Sep 22 2011 - 16:44:50 EDT

Oh now you tell me!! lol.. Im not sure the direction..but the
primary (assuming thats the 623 turns) was inside of the secondary.
Does polarity really matter for an AC transfomer?

> You need one more piece of info, to wind your own.

> Which direction the primary and secondary windings wound.

> This just an example of the info needed.

> Exp. Hold bobbin upright with pins pointing down.

> Start at pin 1 wind clockwise for 625 turns ending at pin 2

> (same info for secondary)

> Also it would be nice to know if the windings were mixed together

> or secondary wound first with primary wound on top of it, etc.

> Thanks

> -----Original Message-----

>>From: Ken Sumrall <k_lists@scrapheap.net>

>>Sent: Sep 17, 2011 8:47 PM

>>To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org

>>Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901

>>akswanson sent me pieces of the wire from the primary and
secondary coils

>> of

>>T901. Using some very fine sandpaper, I sanded off the
insulation, and

>> measured

>>the wire diameter with some nice Mitutoyo calipers.

>>The primary wire measured .0065 inch, which according to
wikipedia:

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

>>is AWG 34.

>>The secondary wire measured at .025 inch, which is AWG 22.

>>So, putting it all together, the specs for T901 are:

>> Primary coil: 625 turns of AWG 34 wire

>> Secondary coil: 23 turns of AWG 22 wire

>>Anyone want to try and wind their own? akswanson has an empty
bobbin and

>>core. :-)

>>___

>>Ken

>>On 09/06/11 18:38, Ken Sumrall wrote:

>>> Excellent! Thanks! Do you happen to have a micrometer or
calipers to

>>> measure

>>> the diameter of the wire? If you do, please use sandpaper to
take off

>>> the

>>> lacquer coating to get an accurate measurement. Or you can
stuff both

>>> wires

>>> in an envelope and send it to me. :-) I have a micrometer
and calipers.

>>>

>>> Let me know if I should send you my address.

>>>

>>> So, looking at the schemtics, T901 is switched on and off
between the

>>> B+ and

>>> B- rails, for about 53 volts minus the drop across Q905, so
let's call

>>> it 52

>>> volts. Then the secondary is listed as being -27.6, but
it's connected

>>> on

>>> one side to B-, or -26.4 volts. So, that's 1.2 volts
across the

>>> secondary

>>> and R926. I'm not sure why R926 is a 2W resistor,
because the only

>>> current

>>> would be to drive the base of a transistor, which should be
in the mA

>>> range.

>>> Then again, the size of the secondary wire in the picture is
thicker

>>> than

>>> that required to drive tens of mA.

>>>

>>> Let's say it's 100 mA, then the drop across R926 is
0.22 volts.

>>> So the primary is 26.4 volts versus the secondary at 1.2-.22
is 0.98,

>>> or a ratio of 26.9:1. And 625 turns / 23 turns is a ratio of
27.2:1.

>>> So your count of the turns ratio seems rather accurate.

>>>

>>> In other words, I have faith in your counted turns. :-)

>>>

>>> ___

>>> Ken

>>>

>>> On 09/04/11 07:27, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:

>>>> Ok.. I pulled my transformer

>>>>

>>>> Primary : 625 turns (give or take some..lol Id say its
within a

>>>> percent or two)

>>>> very fine wire

>>>>

>>>> Secondary: 23 turns

>>>>

>>>> pics for your enjoyment:

>>>>

>>>>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcandrewsnd/sets/72157627466514605/

>>>>

>>>> > I heartily agree that whoever takes the time to
investigate the

>>>> properties

>>>> > of the T901 transformer should post the info the
the list, and

>>>> hopefully

>>>> > the list owner will save that info on the
vectorlist website

>>>> archives.

>>>> >

>>>> > If I finish rebuilding my living room/stero/TV
setup this weekend,

>>>> I'll

>>>> > pull the working T901 from my spare WG high voltage
board and try to

>>>> > measure the turns ratio and the resistance of both
coils. I'll post

>>>> the

>>>> > info here when I get it.

>>>> >

>>>> > ___

>>>> > Ken

>>>> >

>>>> > On 09/02/11 18:11, litterbox99@mchsi.com wrote:

>>>> >> I can't imagine that someone hasn't
done this

>>>> >> before and documented it...

>>>> >>

>>>> >> It would be very usefull information.

>>>> >> Kudos ! To someone who gives it a try.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Todd

>>>> >>

>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----

>>>> >>

>>>>

From: "Ken Sumrall"<k_lists@scrapheap.net>

>>>> >> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org

>>>> >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:53:26 PM GMT
-06:00 Central

>>>> America

>>>> >> Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901

>>>> >>

>>>> >> If the old transformer is not too burned up,
you can count turns as

>>>> you

>>>> >> unwind

>>>> >> it. Sometimes only the insulation melts,
leading to shorted bad

>>>> >> transformers,

>>>> >> but easy to count the turns as you unwind
it.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> However, other times the wire itself
melts/breaks, and then its

>>>> harder

>>>> >> to

>>>> >> count as you unwind. If only one of the two
coils is broken, you

>>>> can

>>>> >> use

>>>> >> the turn count from one coil, and the measured
ratio from a working

>>>> >> transformer

>>>> >> to figure out the turns count for the broken
coil.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Good luck if you choose to do it, and if you
don't want to, you can

>>>> send

>>>> >> me

>>>> >> your burned out transformer and I'll give
it a try.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> ___

>>>> >> Ken

>>>> >>

>>>> >> On 09/02/11 17:40, akswanson@ntelos.net
wrote:

>>>> >>> I have been contemplating rewinding it.
I'll pull it apart and see

>>>> how

>>>> >>> bad. I

>>>> >>> Love the 250ma fuse mod. Im thinking of
some kind of fuse mod for

>>>> this

>>>> >>> G08 im

>>>> >>> working on that keeps blowing output
transistors (yes they are the

>>>> >>> correct

>>>> >>> devices, not the 3716s). Ugh.

>>>> >>>

>>>> >>> > I've thought about this some more,
and it seems to me this would

>>>> >>> not

>>>> >>> > be that hard to rewind yourself. You
can easily measure the

>>>> turns

>>>> >>> ratio

>>>> >>> > of a working transformer with a signal
generator set to the

>>>> right

>>>> >>> > frequency

>>>> >>> > and a volt meter to read the output.
Or just probe the input and

>>>> >>> output

>>>> >>> > terminals of the transformer in a
working circuit, though the

>>>> load

>>>> >>> on the

>>>> >>> > transformer could affect the
readings.

>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>> > Then you could estimate the number of
turns on the primary by

>>>> >>> measuring

>>>> >>> > the

>>>> >>> > resistance of the wire and it's
gauge, and using a chart that

>>>> >>> lists the

>>>> >>> > resistance/foot of the standard wire
gauges.

>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>> > Winding transformers is not fun, but
not hard to do. Just time

>>>> >>> consuming.

>>>> >>> > If there is enough demand, it might be
worth while to get a

>>>> batch

>>>> >>> of them

>>>> >>> > custom made.

>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>> > I know someone who sold a Scope Clock
kit, and he had the

>>>> special

>>>> >>> > transformer

>>>> >>> > he needed for his design custom made.
I could ask him where he

>>>> got

>>>> >>> them

>>>> >>> > made

>>>> >>> > if there is enough interest to
investigate this further.

>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>> > Is there a pent up demand for this
transformer?

>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>> > ___

>>>> >>> > Ken

>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >> --- k_lists@scrapheap.net
wrote:

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>>

>>>>

From: Ken Sumrall<k_lists@scrapheap.net>

>>>> >>> >> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org

>>>> >>> >> Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901

>>>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:33:27
-0700

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >> I searched my local archives of
the vector list, and found this

>>>> >>> post

>>>> >>> >> from July 8, 2007 from Hans O:

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >> > AH, now I remember.
They're found in old B& W raster chassis.

>>>> >>> >> > Track down an old 19V1001 or
1003 chassis. Should be a bunch

>>>> >>> of

>>>> >>> >> > dead ones out there.

>>>> >>> >> >

>>>> >>> >> > Hans O

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >> Good luck!

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >> ___

>>>> >>> >> Ken

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >> akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:

>>>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> lol..no worries.. I guessed
maybe I had the wrong part ##. I

>>>> >>> will

>>>> >>> >>> DEFINATLEY check that out!!

>>>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>> > Oops, I just realized
you're not talking about the flyback,

>>>> >>> but

>>>> >>> >>> the

>>>> >>> >>> > smaller transformer on
the HV board.

>>>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> > Sorry, I don't know
where to get a new one of those.

>>>> However,

>>>> >>> I do

>>>> >>> >>> > recommend you read the
installation manual for the

>>>> >>> replacement

>>>> >>> >>> flyback

>>>> >>> >>> > which you can find at the
first link below. It includes

>>>> >>> >>> instructions on

>>>> >>> >>> > how to add 3 fuses to the
HV circuit to protect components

>>>> >>> >>> (including

>>>> >>> >>> > T901) in the event of
another failure like the one you have.

>>>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> > ___

>>>> >>> >>> > Ken

>>>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> > Ken Sumrall wrote:

>>>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >> You can get one
here:

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >>
http://www.cinelabs.com/wg6100/

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >> which has link to
here:

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >>
http://arcadeshop.com/wgxy-fb/wgxy-fb.htm

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >> $79, and comes with
extra protection components and a new

>>>> >>> focus

>>>> >>> >>> >> assembly.

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >> Note, I've never
ordered or used one of these flybacks, I

>>>> >>> just

>>>> >>> >> remmeber

>>>> >>> >>> >> seeing it recently
while searching for other parts to bring

>>>> >>> a

>>>> >>> >>> 6100

>>>> >>> >> back

>>>> >>> >>> >> to life.

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >> ___

>>>> >>> >>> >> Ken

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >> akswanson@ntelos.net
wrote:

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >>> I had suspected
the triple nickel (555), and indeed it was

>>>> >>> >>> fried.

>>>> >>> >>> >>> It also took out
Q905, AND T901.. I verified this by

>>>> trying

>>>> >>> T901

>>>> >>> >>> in a

>>>> >>> >>> >>> known good HV
unit. I got smoke, and another blown Q905..

>>>> >>> So if

>>>> >>> >>> >>> anybody knows
where I can get a replacement T901 thatd be

>>>> >>> swell!

>>>> >>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > I'm not
saying that you don't have a bad T901, but can

>>>> >>> you

>>>> >>> >>> verify

>>>> >>> >>> >>> that

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > IC901 (555
timer as a simple oscillator) is running. A

>>>> >>> scope

>>>> >>> >>> would

>>>> >>> >>> >>> show a

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > nice square
wave coming out at pin 3. If it is stuck in

>>>> >>> the

>>>> >>> >>> high

>>>> >>> >>> >>> state,

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > it would
keep Q904 and Q905 turned on constantly and

>>>> >>> that

>>>> >>> >>> would

>>>> >>> >>> >>> certainly

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > cause your
problem. Of course in this state, there would

>>>> >>> be

>>>> >>> >>> no HV

>>>> >>> >>> >>> output

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > at all.
Check ZD900 for 13V across it. ZD900 is the

>>>> >>> voltage

>>>> >>> >>> >>> regulator

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > for the 555
chip. If the zener is partially shorted and

>>>> >>> there

>>>> >>> >>> isn't

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > enough
voltage across the 555 chip, then the 555 chip

>>>> >>> output

>>>> >>> >>> might

>>>> >>> >>> >>> be

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > stuck even
if there's nothing wrong with it. If the

>>>> >>> zener is

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >
open-circuit, the 555 chip will likely have blown.

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > You should
remove R917 and leave it out until you can

>>>> >>> verify

>>>> >>> >>> that

>>>> >>> >>> >>> IC901 is

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > running okay
and that the transistors Q904/905 are both

>>>> >>> >>> switching.

>>>> >>> >>> >>> To

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > functionally
test Q905, you can add a temporary 10k (to

>>>> >>> 47k)

>>>> >>> >>> >>> resistor

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > (1/2W to 1W)
from +Vsupply (+28V) to Q905 collector. If

>>>> >>> scope

>>>> >>> >>> shows

>>>> >>> >>> >>> a

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > good square
wave, remove the temporary resistor and

>>>> >>> return

>>>> >>> >>> your

>>>> >>> >>> >>> focus to

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > T901.

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > If you do
not have a scope but you have a voltmeter,

>>>> >>> connect

>>>> >>> >>> your

>>>> >>> >>> >>> meter

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > (-) to ZD900
anode or IC901 pin 1. Use the meter(+) to

>>>> >>> >>> measure

>>>> >>> >>> >>> voltage at

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > ZD900
cathode and IC901 pin 8. Both should be about 13V.

>>>> >>> >>> Measure

>>>> >>> >>> >>> IC901

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > pin 3. If it
is running, it should be around 6.5V

>>>> >>> plus/minus

>>>> >>> >>> around

>>>> >>> >>> >>> 0.5V

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > roughly. The
point here is that pin 3 should be

>>>> >>> outputting a

>>>> >>> >>> square

>>>> >>> >>> >>> wave

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > having
roughly a 50% duty cycle so the voltmeter should

>>>> >>> show

>>>> >>> >>> >>> approximately

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > one half the
chip supply voltage.

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > William
Boucher

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >
http://www.biltronix.com

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > -----
Original Message -----

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>>

>>>>

From: akswanson@ntelos.net

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > To:
vectorlist@vectorlist.org

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent:
Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:20 AM

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject:
VECTOR: K6100 T901

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > One of my
6100s had a fire on the HV board, took out

>>>> >>> R917 and

>>>> >>> >>> Q905.

>>>> >>> >>> >>> I

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > replaced
those, and got smoke again.. Comparing the

>>>> >>> >>> resistance of

>>>> >>> >>> >>> the

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > primary of
T901 to a known working T901 I get 9.5 Ohms

>>>> >>> on the

>>>> >>> >>> >>> suspected

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > bad one and
17 ohms on the known good one. I get the

>>>> >>> feeling

>>>> >>> >>> I

>>>> >>> >>> >>> melted

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > the varnish
on the wiring and shorted them together..

>>>> >>> Does

>>>> >>> >>> anyone

>>>> >>> >>> >>> know

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > where (or
have) and extra T901? Also, Is there a

>>>> >>> secondary

>>>> >>> >>> cause,

>>>> >>> >>> >>> such

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > as a flyback
failure that would cause this kind of

>>>> >>> failure? I

>>>> >>> >>> dont

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > want to blow
the dang thing again..

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >>> > Andrew

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>

>>>>
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>>>> >>> >>> >>
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>>>> >>> >>> >> ** Please direct
other questions, comments, or problems to

>>>> >>> >>> >> chris@westnet.com

>>>> >>> >>> >>

>>>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>

>>>>
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>>>> >>> >>> >
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>>>> >>> >>> > chris@westnet.com

>>>> >>> >>> >

>>>> >>> >>>

>>>> >>> >>

>>>>
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>>>> >>> >

>>>> >>>

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>>>> >

>>>>

>>>
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>>>

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Received on Thu Sep 22 16:44:53 2011

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