Re: K6100 T901

Ah yes, I forgot about the polarity. It matters because it determines if the
secondary is in phase or 180 degrees out of phase with the primary. Not all
uses of a transformer care about the phase, and I don't have time at the moment
to look at the schematic and determine if it matters to this circuit.

Alternatively, I think you can just attach the secondary wires to the pins in
the opposite order to get the same affect as winding the secondary backwards.

___
Ken

On 09/22/11 13:44, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> Oh now you tell me!! lol.. Im not sure the direction..but the primary (assuming
> thats the 623 turns) was inside of the secondary. Does polarity really matter
> for an AC transfomer?
>
> >
> > You need one more piece of info, to wind your own.
> > Which direction the primary and secondary windings wound.
> >
> > This just an example of the info needed.
> > Exp. Hold bobbin upright with pins pointing down.
> > Start at pin 1 wind clockwise for 625 turns ending at pin 2
> > (same info for secondary)
> >
> >
> > Also it would be nice to know if the windings were mixed together
> > or secondary wound first with primary wound on top of it, etc.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >>From: Ken Sumrall <k_lists@scrapheap.net>
> >>Sent: Sep 17, 2011 8:47 PM
> >>To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>
> >>akswanson sent me pieces of the wire from the primary and secondary coils
> >> of
> >>T901. Using some very fine sandpaper, I sanded off the insulation, and
> >> measured
> >>the wire diameter with some nice Mitutoyo calipers.
> >>
> >>The primary wire measured .0065 inch, which according to wikipedia:
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
> >>
> >>is AWG 34.
> >>
> >>The secondary wire measured at .025 inch, which is AWG 22.
> >>
> >>So, putting it all together, the specs for T901 are:
> >>
> >> Primary coil: 625 turns of AWG 34 wire
> >> Secondary coil: 23 turns of AWG 22 wire
> >>
> >>Anyone want to try and wind their own? akswanson has an empty bobbin and
> >>core. :-)
> >>
> >>___
> >>Ken
> >>
> >>
> >>On 09/06/11 18:38, Ken Sumrall wrote:
> >>> Excellent! Thanks! Do you happen to have a micrometer or calipers to
> >>> measure
> >>> the diameter of the wire? If you do, please use sandpaper to take off
> >>> the
> >>> lacquer coating to get an accurate measurement. Or you can stuff both
> >>> wires
> >>> in an envelope and send it to me. :-) I have a micrometer and calipers.
> >>>
> >>> Let me know if I should send you my address.
> >>>
> >>> So, looking at the schemtics, T901 is switched on and off between the
> >>> B+ and
> >>> B- rails, for about 53 volts minus the drop across Q905, so let's call
> >>> it 52
> >>> volts. Then the secondary is listed as being -27.6, but it's connected
> >>> on
> >>> one side to B-, or -26.4 volts. So, that's 1.2 volts across the
> >>> secondary
> >>> and R926. I'm not sure why R926 is a 2W resistor, because the only
> >>> current
> >>> would be to drive the base of a transistor, which should be in the mA
> >>> range.
> >>> Then again, the size of the secondary wire in the picture is thicker
> >>> than
> >>> that required to drive tens of mA.
> >>>
> >>> Let's say it's 100 mA, then the drop across R926 is 0.22 volts.
> >>> So the primary is 26.4 volts versus the secondary at 1.2-.22 is 0.98,
> >>> or a ratio of 26.9:1. And 625 turns / 23 turns is a ratio of 27.2:1.
> >>> So your count of the turns ratio seems rather accurate.
> >>>
> >>> In other words, I have faith in your counted turns. :-)
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Ken
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 09/04/11 07:27, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>>> Ok.. I pulled my transformer
> >>>>
> >>>> Primary : 625 turns (give or take some..lol Id say its within a
> >>>> percent or two)
> >>>> very fine wire
> >>>>
> >>>> Secondary: 23 turns
> >>>>
> >>>> pics for your enjoyment:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcandrewsnd/sets/72157627466514605/
> >>>>
> >>>> > I heartily agree that whoever takes the time to investigate the
> >>>> properties
> >>>> > of the T901 transformer should post the info the the list, and
> >>>> hopefully
> >>>> > the list owner will save that info on the vectorlist website
> >>>> archives.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If I finish rebuilding my living room/stero/TV setup this weekend,
> >>>> I'll
> >>>> > pull the working T901 from my spare WG high voltage board and try to
> >>>> > measure the turns ratio and the resistance of both coils. I'll post
> >>>> the
> >>>> > info here when I get it.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > ___
> >>>> > Ken
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On 09/02/11 18:11, litterbox99@mchsi.com wrote:
> >>>> >> I can't imagine that someone hasn't done this
> >>>> >> before and documented it...
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> It would be very usefull information.
> >>>> >> Kudos ! To someone who gives it a try.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Todd
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> >>
> >>>>
> From: "Ken Sumrall"<k_lists@scrapheap.net>
> >>>> >> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>>> >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2011 6:53:26 PM GMT -06:00 Central
> >>>> America
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> If the old transformer is not too burned up, you can count turns as
> >>>> you
> >>>> >> unwind
> >>>> >> it. Sometimes only the insulation melts, leading to shorted bad
> >>>> >> transformers,
> >>>> >> but easy to count the turns as you unwind it.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> However, other times the wire itself melts/breaks, and then its
> >>>> harder
> >>>> >> to
> >>>> >> count as you unwind. If only one of the two coils is broken, you
> >>>> can
> >>>> >> use
> >>>> >> the turn count from one coil, and the measured ratio from a working
> >>>> >> transformer
> >>>> >> to figure out the turns count for the broken coil.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Good luck if you choose to do it, and if you don't want to, you can
> >>>> send
> >>>> >> me
> >>>> >> your burned out transformer and I'll give it a try.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ___
> >>>> >> Ken
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On 09/02/11 17:40, akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>>> >>> I have been contemplating rewinding it. I'll pull it apart and see
> >>>> how
> >>>> >>> bad. I
> >>>> >>> Love the 250ma fuse mod. Im thinking of some kind of fuse mod for
> >>>> this
> >>>> >>> G08 im
> >>>> >>> working on that keeps blowing output transistors (yes they are the
> >>>> >>> correct
> >>>> >>> devices, not the 3716s). Ugh.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> > I've thought about this some more, and it seems to me this would
> >>>> >>> not
> >>>> >>> > be that hard to rewind yourself. You can easily measure the
> >>>> turns
> >>>> >>> ratio
> >>>> >>> > of a working transformer with a signal generator set to the
> >>>> right
> >>>> >>> > frequency
> >>>> >>> > and a volt meter to read the output. Or just probe the input and
> >>>> >>> output
> >>>> >>> > terminals of the transformer in a working circuit, though the
> >>>> load
> >>>> >>> on the
> >>>> >>> > transformer could affect the readings.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Then you could estimate the number of turns on the primary by
> >>>> >>> measuring
> >>>> >>> > the
> >>>> >>> > resistance of the wire and it's gauge, and using a chart that
> >>>> >>> lists the
> >>>> >>> > resistance/foot of the standard wire gauges.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Winding transformers is not fun, but not hard to do. Just time
> >>>> >>> consuming.
> >>>> >>> > If there is enough demand, it might be worth while to get a
> >>>> batch
> >>>> >>> of them
> >>>> >>> > custom made.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > I know someone who sold a Scope Clock kit, and he had the
> >>>> special
> >>>> >>> > transformer
> >>>> >>> > he needed for his design custom made. I could ask him where he
> >>>> got
> >>>> >>> them
> >>>> >>> > made
> >>>> >>> > if there is enough interest to investigate this further.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Is there a pent up demand for this transformer?
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > ___
> >>>> >>> > Ken
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >> --- k_lists@scrapheap.net wrote:
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>>
> From: Ken Sumrall<k_lists@scrapheap.net>
> >>>> >>> >> To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>>> >>> >> Subject: Re: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:33:27 -0700
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> I searched my local archives of the vector list, and found this
> >>>> >>> post
> >>>> >>> >> from July 8, 2007 from Hans O:
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> > AH, now I remember. They're found in old B& W raster chassis.
> >>>> >>> >> > Track down an old 19V1001 or 1003 chassis. Should be a bunch
> >>>> >>> of
> >>>> >>> >> > dead ones out there.
> >>>> >>> >> >
> >>>> >>> >> > Hans O
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> Good luck!
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> ___
> >>>> >>> >> Ken
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> lol..no worries.. I guessed maybe I had the wrong part ##. I
> >>>> >>> will
> >>>> >>> >>> DEFINATLEY check that out!!
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>> > Oops, I just realized you're not talking about the flyback,
> >>>> >>> but
> >>>> >>> >>> the
> >>>> >>> >>> > smaller transformer on the HV board.
> >>>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> > Sorry, I don't know where to get a new one of those.
> >>>> However,
> >>>> >>> I do
> >>>> >>> >>> > recommend you read the installation manual for the
> >>>> >>> replacement
> >>>> >>> >>> flyback
> >>>> >>> >>> > which you can find at the first link below. It includes
> >>>> >>> >>> instructions on
> >>>> >>> >>> > how to add 3 fuses to the HV circuit to protect components
> >>>> >>> >>> (including
> >>>> >>> >>> > T901) in the event of another failure like the one you have.
> >>>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> > ___
> >>>> >>> >>> > Ken
> >>>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> > Ken Sumrall wrote:
> >>>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >> You can get one here:
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> http://www.cinelabs.com/wg6100/
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> which has link to here:
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> http://arcadeshop.com/wgxy-fb/wgxy-fb.htm
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> $79, and comes with extra protection components and a new
> >>>> >>> focus
> >>>> >>> >>> >> assembly.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> Note, I've never ordered or used one of these flybacks, I
> >>>> >>> just
> >>>> >>> >> remmeber
> >>>> >>> >>> >> seeing it recently while searching for other parts to bring
> >>>> >>> a
> >>>> >>> >>> 6100
> >>>> >>> >> back
> >>>> >>> >>> >> to life.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> ___
> >>>> >>> >>> >> Ken
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >> akswanson@ntelos.net wrote:
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> I had suspected the triple nickel (555), and indeed it was
> >>>> >>> >>> fried.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> It also took out Q905, AND T901.. I verified this by
> >>>> trying
> >>>> >>> T901
> >>>> >>> >>> in a
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> known good HV unit. I got smoke, and another blown Q905..
> >>>> >>> So if
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> anybody knows where I can get a replacement T901 thatd be
> >>>> >>> swell!
> >>>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > I'm not saying that you don't have a bad T901, but can
> >>>> >>> you
> >>>> >>> >>> verify
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> that
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > IC901 (555 timer as a simple oscillator) is running. A
> >>>> >>> scope
> >>>> >>> >>> would
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> show a
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > nice square wave coming out at pin 3. If it is stuck in
> >>>> >>> the
> >>>> >>> >>> high
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> state,
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > it would keep Q904 and Q905 turned on constantly and
> >>>> >>> that
> >>>> >>> >>> would
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> certainly
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > cause your problem. Of course in this state, there would
> >>>> >>> be
> >>>> >>> >>> no HV
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> output
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > at all. Check ZD900 for 13V across it. ZD900 is the
> >>>> >>> voltage
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> regulator
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > for the 555 chip. If the zener is partially shorted and
> >>>> >>> there
> >>>> >>> >>> isn't
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > enough voltage across the 555 chip, then the 555 chip
> >>>> >>> output
> >>>> >>> >>> might
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> be
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > stuck even if there's nothing wrong with it. If the
> >>>> >>> zener is
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > open-circuit, the 555 chip will likely have blown.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > You should remove R917 and leave it out until you can
> >>>> >>> verify
> >>>> >>> >>> that
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> IC901 is
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > running okay and that the transistors Q904/905 are both
> >>>> >>> >>> switching.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> To
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > functionally test Q905, you can add a temporary 10k (to
> >>>> >>> 47k)
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> resistor
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > (1/2W to 1W) from +Vsupply (+28V) to Q905 collector. If
> >>>> >>> scope
> >>>> >>> >>> shows
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> a
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > good square wave, remove the temporary resistor and
> >>>> >>> return
> >>>> >>> >>> your
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> focus to
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > T901.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > If you do not have a scope but you have a voltmeter,
> >>>> >>> connect
> >>>> >>> >>> your
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> meter
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > (-) to ZD900 anode or IC901 pin 1. Use the meter(+) to
> >>>> >>> >>> measure
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> voltage at
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ZD900 cathode and IC901 pin 8. Both should be about 13V.
> >>>> >>> >>> Measure
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> IC901
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > pin 3. If it is running, it should be around 6.5V
> >>>> >>> plus/minus
> >>>> >>> >>> around
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> 0.5V
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > roughly. The point here is that pin 3 should be
> >>>> >>> outputting a
> >>>> >>> >>> square
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> wave
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > having roughly a 50% duty cycle so the voltmeter should
> >>>> >>> show
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> approximately
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > one half the chip supply voltage.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > William Boucher
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > http://www.biltronix.com
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>>
> From: akswanson@ntelos.net
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > To: vectorlist@vectorlist.org
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:20 AM
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: VECTOR: K6100 T901
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > One of my 6100s had a fire on the HV board, took out
> >>>> >>> R917 and
> >>>> >>> >>> Q905.
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> I
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > replaced those, and got smoke again.. Comparing the
> >>>> >>> >>> resistance of
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> the
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > primary of T901 to a known working T901 I get 9.5 Ohms
> >>>> >>> on the
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> suspected
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > bad one and 17 ohms on the known good one. I get the
> >>>> >>> feeling
> >>>> >>> >>> I
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> melted
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > the varnish on the wiring and shorted them together..
> >>>> >>> Does
> >>>> >>> >>> anyone
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> know
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > where (or have) and extra T901? Also, Is there a
> >>>> >>> secondary
> >>>> >>> >>> cause,
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> such
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > as a flyback failure that would cause this kind of
> >>>> >>> failure? I
> >>>> >>> >>> dont
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > want to blow the dang thing again..
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > Andrew
> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>> >>> >>> >> http://www.vectorlist.org
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> >>>> >>> >>> >> chris@westnet.com
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >>>
> >>>> >>> >>
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Received on Thu Sep 22 17:26:10 2011